Why do you conclude that Trump never engaged in the most problematic behavior, etc.? In his long history of friendly association with Epstein, the two of them were seen, photographed, etc. at many parties and events, including those where Epstein was known to be looking for women to recruit (or as sexual targets). The NYT politely tells the story of Epstein and Trump's falling out as rivalry over real estate, but even Trump has on one occasion told it as anger over Maxwell recruiting women for Epstein's operations that Trump had already hired at Mar-a-Lago. Considering that Giuffre's job there involved massage, I don't think that was the reaction of a protective and caring employer. It was another rivalry over possession, that's all. Add to that Trump's independently documented history of sexual aggression and assault and I can't say I would have any confidence that his association with Epstein did not include any episodes in which Epstein procured a woman for him. There's an accusation out there in fact that Trump met Melania through a network of men bringing women from Eastern Europe that was only one degree of separation away from Epstein and Maxwell. If Trump didn't go to the island etc. it is not because his heart was pure. He wasn't one of the corporate leaders or academics that Epstein was adding to his clout collection, he was a peer who had his own ways of arranging--or forcing--sex with women that he wanted.
Sure. One of Epstein's other communications was that he had to warn Trump off of a 16-year old girl by saying "she's not for you". I really would not be in a hurry to think (or say) that Trump and Epstein never collaborated in this kind of misconduct.
Ok, but that wasn't the point of this peice. I thought that Epstein's other assessment of Trump was SUPER interesting -- he thought Trump was batshit insane.
I agree that's interesting. (Not just insane, but "bad"--which says something when an unqualifiedly bad person says so.) I just think there is no point to offering Trump any shelter at all from any assertion of wrong-doing, because I can't think of something he's been accused of where there has been unambiguous exoneration.
I think here I would dig in. Trump has earned no grace from anyone remotely reasonable. Even some of his supporters more or less support him despite what he's done, not because they think he's being accused unfairly. We aren't going to get anywhere as a country if we can't work back towards some agreements about where to where to assume guilt and where to be careful about the assumption. If Trump isn't the ground where reasonable people can say, "most of what is assumed about his conduct is likely true", I don't know what is.
I enjoyed your post.
Thanks, Paul!
You are on fire, Laura! Excellent newsletter.
Thank you, Maria!
Why do you conclude that Trump never engaged in the most problematic behavior, etc.? In his long history of friendly association with Epstein, the two of them were seen, photographed, etc. at many parties and events, including those where Epstein was known to be looking for women to recruit (or as sexual targets). The NYT politely tells the story of Epstein and Trump's falling out as rivalry over real estate, but even Trump has on one occasion told it as anger over Maxwell recruiting women for Epstein's operations that Trump had already hired at Mar-a-Lago. Considering that Giuffre's job there involved massage, I don't think that was the reaction of a protective and caring employer. It was another rivalry over possession, that's all. Add to that Trump's independently documented history of sexual aggression and assault and I can't say I would have any confidence that his association with Epstein did not include any episodes in which Epstein procured a woman for him. There's an accusation out there in fact that Trump met Melania through a network of men bringing women from Eastern Europe that was only one degree of separation away from Epstein and Maxwell. If Trump didn't go to the island etc. it is not because his heart was pure. He wasn't one of the corporate leaders or academics that Epstein was adding to his clout collection, he was a peer who had his own ways of arranging--or forcing--sex with women that he wanted.
That's what one of Epstein's emails said. He said that he was trying to get Trump to engage with his underage girls, but he didn't.
Of course, Trump was problematic in a million other ways.
Sure. One of Epstein's other communications was that he had to warn Trump off of a 16-year old girl by saying "she's not for you". I really would not be in a hurry to think (or say) that Trump and Epstein never collaborated in this kind of misconduct.
Ok, but that wasn't the point of this peice. I thought that Epstein's other assessment of Trump was SUPER interesting -- he thought Trump was batshit insane.
I agree that's interesting. (Not just insane, but "bad"--which says something when an unqualifiedly bad person says so.) I just think there is no point to offering Trump any shelter at all from any assertion of wrong-doing, because I can't think of something he's been accused of where there has been unambiguous exoneration.
At the same time, if a person is assumed to be guilty of everything, then nobody takes the real accusations seriously.
I think here I would dig in. Trump has earned no grace from anyone remotely reasonable. Even some of his supporters more or less support him despite what he's done, not because they think he's being accused unfairly. We aren't going to get anywhere as a country if we can't work back towards some agreements about where to where to assume guilt and where to be careful about the assumption. If Trump isn't the ground where reasonable people can say, "most of what is assumed about his conduct is likely true", I don't know what is.